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Post by order99 on Dec 3, 2020 5:13:32 GMT
I am currently in the throes of the Dreaded Insomnia- (Alternate Title: I Have No Coffee and I Must Scream )
-So i've decided to put up a Thread for possible Alternate Character Classes for Hoodlums and Hideouts. I know that Scott has been working on a Mystic Hero Class (or possibly Sub-Class) and maxwellchris has been chewing on a Gadgeteer/Devisor Class, so if anybody has something they'd like to post along those lines, please don't be shy.
I'll start the ball rolling with a brief overview-in the first draft of H&H 1st Edition, you just had the Big Three Classes, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman...Fighter, Magic User and Superhero, with other powers coming from Race (Human, Android, Alien, Merman etc). But then the Trophy Case arrived and a lot of Classes showed up, many of which stepped on the Human Class Abilities (Hide in Shadows, Notice) or had limited-use Skills (Aviator, Cowboy etc).
The Overeditor solved both issues in H&H second Edition, first by giving Humans an extra SCM instead of the original Abilities and by incorporating a universal Skill system that all Classes could use (but that Mysterymen were better at and Stunt as well). But do we really need a Class for everything? Hence:
Backgrounds-Every PC gets one at Level 1. Simply think of a basic classification of things that you are good at, give it a name and (insert Magic Word of choice)! You get to roll an extra Skill die and pick the best one. If the Skill is Combat-related, make sure the Editor approves it. On rare occasions (again, Editor Approval) the Background may allow an action that other PCs cannot do at all. Examples: (*=Editor Consult)
Cowboy (Ropin', Bronc-Bustin' Trick Shots and Disarms, Herdin' cattle/sheep, Fergettin' proper English ) Journalist (Research and Fact-checking, SCM rolls due to Contacts and Interview experience, Save vs. Plot for Languages)
Athlete (Climbing, Swimming, Running, Sports Trivia, Grapple Rolls)
Martial Artist (+1 Damage Unarmed only, +/-1 AC when mobile)*
Explorer (Track Prey, Trap Prey, Live off the Land, Language Checks)
Jungle Lord (Track Prey, Climbing, Hide Live off the Land, Save vs. Plot to speak to animals and possibly access animal SCMs)*
Weapon Specialist (+1 to Strike, Disarm, Trick Shot only with named weapon)*
Aviator (Pilot Plane, Evasive actions, Barnstorming, Increase Speed/performance, Repair Plane, Judge Quality of Aircraft)
Driver (same as Aviator but for wheeled vehicles)
Sailor (Evade Vessel, Navigate by Star and map, Increase Speed/Performance, Repair Vessel, Languages check)
Alienist/Psychologist (Diagnose/Treat mental illness, SCM rolls due to knowledge of the mind, Hypnosis checks)
Cat Burglar (Hide, Move Silently, Pick Lock, Notice Things)
Private Eye (Hide/Blend In, Research, Notice Things, Evade Pursuit)
Occult Expert (Translate Document, Identify Supernatural Mobster, Identify Spell, Wand or Object, Turn Undead) Stage Magic (Pick Pocket/Sleight of Hand, Notice Things, Escape Bindings, Build Stage props)
-etc.
Note that a Weapons Expert could be a Magic-User or Mysteryman-but if the Weapon was a Gun they would have to make a Save vs. Plot to actually injure anybody with it (Disarms and Trick Shots all day long though). A Fighter Cowboy would be Shane or Wyatt Earp, a Mysteryman Cowboy would be the TV version of the Lone Ranger or Gene Autry in his movies, and a Cowboy Magic-User would just be Plumb Weird ("No, I swear I wuz sober! First he shot that coin outta the air and then he fired bullets that turned Dave into a sheep! Tell 'im Dave!Oh, Right..."). Likewise Mandrake the Magician might be really good at Stage Magic, but Houdini (Mysteryman minus mask) would be far more skilled-and both the Master of the Black Circle (MU) and his natural enemy Solomon Kane(F) are Occult Experts.
Also note that if an Editor doesn't just want to handwave an SCM action, he or she can just make a Background for the SCM and roll the dice.
Optional-after Three Levels a PC may forego Ability Advancement (increase rolls for Ability Scores) and gain a Background instead-so in H&H 2nd Edition Basic the PC could take an extra Background as early as Level Four, but would need to wait for an Advanced Set to get three at Level Seven or better.
In Summation-can an existing Class/Race plus Background handle what you want? If Answer=Yes, then great. If Answer=No, then a new Class is needed.
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Post by order99 on Dec 3, 2020 5:14:43 GMT
The Summoner- A highly specialized form of Magic User, using the MU advancement table, attack capability, and limitations on weapons and armor. The Summoner may be able to figure out Scrolls and cast them, and use other M-U magic items, but have no spells of their own and cannot gain any, ever-also they cannot enter psychic combat as a normal M-U (nor be forced into it). Instead, the Summoner has either been imbued with otherworldly power or tamed an otherworldly force to do their bidding. This connection nets them the following: 1) Summoning. The Summoner can call to their aid Mobsters of up to Lvl HD per day-they appear out a ring of fire, glowing door, puff of smoke, claws out of the earth etc.. The Summoner must name the type of Summoned creatures at character creation (Historical Figures, Imps of Darkness, The Undead, Newsboy Armies, Mist Demons etc). The Editor and Writer determine together what abilities these creatures have (Historical Figures have the skills they were famous for, Imps of Darkness see in the dark and have claws, Newsboys have access to writing instruments, cameras and or bags of newspaper, Mist Demons cannot be harmed but cannot harm in turn, only Grapple and Blind, etc). The Summoned beings can remain for one full exploration turn(or a full combat scene) and then vanish. 2)Affinity. If the Summoner happens to meet any Mobsters of the type they Summon, they will be able to communicate with them automatically and may attempt to recruit them as temporary SCMs (Reaction Roll as Usual). 3) Related Magics/Powers. Any magics keyed to the Summoned Mobster type might be available to the Summoner as a Spell or Power(Read Languages and Magic for Historical Figures, Find Evidence for Newsboys, Fog Cloud for Mist Demons, Light[Reversed] for Imps of Darkness, Spook Bad Guys for Undead etc). The Summoner gets one ability at Lvl 1 and another at Lvl 5, and the Summoner's Lvl is used to determine range, duration and effect. Unlike most M-U's, the Summoner sacrifices 'Summoning Ability' equal to the Lvl of Spell or Power to make them work, reducing the ability to Summon per day. (Essentially the Summoner has Spell Points=Lvl. Spell Points Summon Mobsters at 1pt/HD, or fuel Ability as per Lvl of Power or Spell-Invisibility=2 Spell Points). 4) Focus. All Summoners have a Focus, whether a wand, staff or piece of jewelry, or a free-willed SCM (living puppet, animal or demonic familiar, spirit guide etc). As long as the Summoner is within 30' of the focus their Summoning Ability has +2 HD...but out of range their power is at -3HD, possibly leaving lower Lvl Summoners powerless. A Focus that is destroyed may be re-created or reappear in 1D3+1 days. Examples: Kid Eternity-Lvl 10 Ghost Summoner(no name in the Fawcett version). Ghost Powers-turn insubstantial 10 Turns per day Theme-Historical (and sometimes Mythical) figures Bonus Abilities-Read Languages and Magic, Invisibility Focus-Mr Keeper, ghostly guardian SCM
(Ghost is Optional Race from Supplement V)
The Shade (James Robinson version, early career) Richard Swift, Lvl 4 Half-Human Summoner Half-Human Abilities-See in Darkness 30', Hide in Shadows +1 ,'Animal' features-eerie unnatural eyes, sinister body language, shadow sometimes out of synch Theme-Demons of Darkness Bonus Abilities-Darkness (and after Lvl 5 is reached, Spook Good Guy) Focus-Ebony Walking stick (Note: Half-Human is an Optional Race from one of the Trophy Case magazines-basically Animal Folk)
To Summarize-the OverEditor and I were discussing his plans to pastiche the Fawcett Heroes (the way he did with Major'Not Captain Marvel' Magus in the Trophy Case series, I mentioned Kid Eternity and what a terrible fit he seemed to be in H&H, a Stunt blew up in my hand ("Medic!!") and I promptly vomited an untested MU subclass onto the post-if anybody still games feel free to playtest it for me as my group is still under the Specter of the Dread Covid-19...A Pox on It!
(wait hold on would that work? Can a disease kill a disease? Where are my Red Weed samples and my Radium Gun? SCIENCE!!!!!)
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Post by order99 on Dec 3, 2020 8:28:40 GMT
Sigh....still awake. Obviously the MesmeroTeacher Mark II needs more work... Re-read my copy of White Wolf's Adventure! this weekend, and it has sparked something to resentful life deep within my bowels... (Note to Self: Resentful Life in Bowels is possibly Abnormal-schedule a Medical Check-up) At any rate, let's see what the Z-Ray shows us-while we wait though, allow me to present: The Pulp Hero There are certain types of Hero that exist in the literature of the period-and in some comics. They do not cast spells or alter reality, are not brilliant polymaths and do not shoot lightning bolts from their eyes nor rout entire mobs with their fists...but they are very, very effective in their special fields of endeavor. They have skills and abilities that border the uncanny, and sometimes access to technology bordering on the fantastic...they are the Pulp Heroes!
Race-Human. It's going to get really quirky if you allow Android, Alien or Merman Pulp Heroes, but if the Player and Editor agree...
Hit Dice-D6.
Attacks as-Superhero. Experience as-Mysteryman. Armor- Flack Jacket or less. Weapons-as Fighter. Does not Save vs. Plot to shoot guns. Saves- as Mysterymen, Bonuses as per Sub-Class. Skills- as Fighter. Background- one at Lvl 1 if Option is available in game. Signature Abilities-All Sub-Types of Pulp Hero have access to the Stunts from Supplement V Big Bang .The PC picks three from the list to best reflect the Signature 'style' of the PC, and picks another every Level-barring some horrible sorcerous or Super-science event these cannot be changed later. The Abilities chosen may be used once per day plus once per level. (see Mysteryman chart) and are renewed after either a decent sleep of at least 7 hours or at a mystically-appointed time such as sunrise or midnight as the PC's Origin dictates Sub-ClassesThe Stalwart-(Prime Ability=STR)+2 vs Poison and Missles, +2 to Save of Choice. +1 on Wrecking table (still as a non-Superhero) Suggestions for Signature Style include- Climb (walking speed) Leap, Tough Skin,Minor Wrecking Things(as Superhero, Lvl still capped at 4) Increase Speed (self Only) Tuck And Roll. The Daredevil-(Prime Ability=DEX) +1 vs Poison, +2 vs Missles,+2 vs Plot, +1 on all Skill rolls. Suggestions for Signature Style include- Disarming Shot, Disguise, Open Locks (automatic) Quick Draw, Tightrope Walk, Remove Traps, Improved Cover, Increase Speed (generic or specific) The Mesmerist-(Prime Ability=WIS) +2 vs Missles, Poison and Spells, +1 to Hypnotize and to use Magic Items as M-U (treat as researching a Spell per Item). Suggestions for Signature Style Include- Disguise, Improve Cover (+1/-1 benefit with No Cover also) Disguise, Find Blind Spot, Get a Clue, Track, Foil Tracking, Keen Hearing. The Madboy/Madgirl-(Prime Ability=INT) +2 vs Science, Poison,+1 vs Missles, +1 vs Plot, all equipment and Invention research 1/2 price and may choose Minor Trophies at start of play if Editor Agrees. Suggestions for Signature Styles include-Invent Pill, Invent Machine, Get a Clue, Open Locks, Remove Traps, Improved Cover, Blasphemous Surgery (New! Allows implantation of Equipment to a living being at three times normal cost and one week of treatments/recovery. Not recommended for the Sane). Changes to Stunts from Supplement V: Climb-is automatic, at walking speed if not smooth or wet, at half walking speed if either and at normal Climbing speed if both. If still scaling the surface when Climb duration runs out then normal Skill checks (and Equipment Bonuses) are allowed. Two Turns per Level. Disarming Shot- Level=number of Disarms per activation per combat. Can be used with any missle or melee weapon. Disguise- As written, but Duration is 2 Turns + 3 per Level. Get a Clue-as written, but any clues in range (range is now 25 feet) are automatically detected. In the absence of clues, the Editor may give the PC an Intuition or Premonition. Improved Cover-A +1 Cover Bonus is applied in addition to any (or no) cover. Four Turns per Level. Increase Speed- If voluntarily limited by the Player to just one aspect (self, type of vehicle, type of animal)the Speed Increase is now 50%. Invent Machine-If attempting to duplicate a ray, gun or wand, a semi-portable (5 foot cube) machine may be created that is good for one shot only or a single Combat Turn of use (a single jump for Leap I for example rather than the standard Duration would also qualify). Invent Pill-can also duplicate a Potion. Open Locks-Automatic as long as the Duration holds out. Can instead be expended to open one locked Vault. Quick Draw-Duration 2 Turns per Level, and can be used with any weapon (or Unarmed) Tightrope Walk-Duration is 4 Turns per Level, and can be applied to slippery surfaces such as oil or ice. Track-Range is now 25 feet, Duration is 4 Turns per Level. Tuck and Roll-Duration is 5 Turns per Level, and falls of 10 Feet +1 per Level result in no damage at all. (Most of the changes made to Stunts are for the sake of erasing the difference between the Lvl 1/Lvl 2 Tiers and to better separate them from ordinary Skills and Mysteryman Stunts)
As with other Classes, Coronavirus prevents my playtesting anything, feel free to steal my notes and JAM. Darn it, still not sleepy. Oh well, i'm going to check the developed z-ray map and then try some warm milk- Oh. OH NO THIS CANNOT BE... But...but if i'm an Android Duplicate tjhen where is the Real Order99?CURSE YOU PER DEGATON! I'LL SEE PURGED FROM THE TIMELINE FOR TH- ( ) Oh Carp, Internal Meltdown in two minutes...think think think...yeah, okay, if i'm at HQ then the Real Order99 is probably still on Counter-Earth with the Insurgency. Sending a video snapshot to my-I mean his-Chronopack won't take even 30 seconds, then i've well over a minute to lock myself in the Vault and meltdown harmlessly... Oh, it was FUN being Me. AVENGE ME REAL ME! AVENGE ME! (click)
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 3, 2020 15:42:49 GMT
I will devour all of this info...soon! You must be avenged!!
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Post by order99 on Dec 7, 2020 1:58:34 GMT
Um, who must be avenged? I'm not sure what you OH DEAR SWEET GRODD MY LAB!!!!!!
(checks video feed)
Oh yeah Per Degaton definitely broke our Truce. He will PAY for- Uuuuuuum....no. No, the last time we went at it we actually had a Timequake and it took six opposing factions to set things straight-and when Chronos the Time-Thief and the friggen' Time Trapper start lecturing you, well that's when you know 'Yuh Dun Goofed'... Oh... wait a minute! I'm going to send myself a message with an Encryption that I know Degaton's already broken-outlining my plans to to tinker with his Personal Timeline and turn him into a Redheaded Paranoid with Delusions of Grandeur and a penchant for writing bad Fanfiction! He'll never believe that I didn't do something, and if i'm really lucky he'll screw his own Timeline sideways with Paradox effects...and best of all I don't have to lift a finger... Bwah Hah Hah etc etc... Hmmm...Alternate Classes, huh? Fake Me had some interesting ideas...well, in honor of the burning mass of wires and melted pseudoplasm stinking up my Lab I suppose I should toss one or two in: The Speedster (revised)The Speedster is a sub-class of the Superhero and subject to all the limitations, Allowed Races,Attack bonus, Saves etc of the class. Unlike the Superhero however, Hit Dice is 1D6+1 per Level as a Fighter (or 1D8 in 2nd Edition). The Class gets the following Abilities: Primary Score (if 1st Edition)-Dexterity. All Speedsters get to add their Save Bonus vs Missles(+3 in 2nd Edition,+2 in 1st Edition) as an AC bonus due to Speed and unpredictability of movement. At creation, the Speedster picks one of three possible Abilities: Flight at 12" and +2"/Lvl or Running at 18" and +3"/Lvl (note: an Alien or Half Alien Speedster replaces this with 20" and +4"/Lvl) or Teleportation at 12" and +1"Lvl. A Limitation or Quirk for this Ability should be discussed between Player and Editor (line of Sight Only, Shadow to Shadow only, Reflective Surfaces Only, etc etc as per the hero's theme). Powers-The Speedster may take both Powers or Spells and counts as both a Superhero or M-U of equivalent Level-but unlike either, the Speedster picks them permanently and cannot change them out without Editor Consent/Story Arc. The Speedster gets one Power at Level 1 and one every other Level (3, 5, 7 etc). These abilities may be used with the same frequency as Mysteryman Stunts(Lvl/day+1) for a reliable set of 'speed tricks'. Okay, enough for tonight, i've got to clean up the Lab, let Rick Hunter know that I didn't actually mess up Per Degaton's Timeline (kinda gave my word y'know) and then back to Counter-Earth. Pity about Fake Me, I think we'd have gotten along, and Per Negation on Counter-Earth would have really liked him...
(grabs tissue sample)
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Post by Adminenkainen on Dec 7, 2020 17:08:30 GMT
I'm really digging the background idea. If I ever got the Heroes Handbook done, I might ask to include something like that! Interesting how, immediately after introducing backgrounds, you then make a bunch of sub-classes for the pulp hero instead of backgrounds for it...
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Post by order99 on Dec 8, 2020 23:45:58 GMT
I'm really digging the background idea. If I ever got the Heroes Handbook done, I might ask to include something like that! Interesting how, immediately after introducing backgrounds, you then make a bunch of sub-classes for the pulp hero instead of backgrounds for it... There were two reasons that I did that:
1) Backgrounds are an Optional rule-I didn't include them in the other Classes either.
2) The Pulp Hero Sub-classes have different saves, Abilities and broad indicators for the reality-tweaking Stunts of the archetype-Backgrounds give a permanent Skill boost-don't forget that the Pulp Hero only has 1d6 Skill rather than the Mysteryman it was based off of.
So, if the Optional Rule was used then a Stalwart might play to to type with an Athlete background-or buck the trend and go with Two-Fisted Scientist (chemistry, Biology, Physics)and explain their above-average Abilities as the result of a fitness or glandular regimen...The Madlad might not have a Science background at all, instead being a Jungle Lord who licked a mysterious Monolith one day. (and while they probably wouldn't understand other technologies that well their own reality-tweaking Stunts would be unaffected):
Silver Scorpion-So how did you mix up the cure for that Martian Plague so quickly?
Bear that Laughs-That planet you speak of is subordinate to Coyote, and is linked with the elements Cinnibar and Copper...also,The Ancestor-spirits will always side with their own planet when called upon for Power, so-pretty obvious really.
Silver Scorpion-Yikes. No way to mass produce that stuff then?
Bear that Laughs-Not really, it takes at least a decade to train a Shaman, and then they have to survive being thrown off the cliff.Still, the ones who don't make it become Spirits of great power, so it's good either way...
Silver Scorpion- What.
At any rate you could make a Pulp Hero Background for a Mysteryman or other Class, but that's such a broad possible range of sub-skills i'd be hard-pressed to define it-and giving a Pulp Hero Background to a Pulp Hero sub-class might lead to some seriously recursive shenanigans...
Now if we stuck to a Type of Pulp Hero for Skills, then a Mesmerist with Cat Burglar would fit all the Tropes of Walter Gibson's literary Shadow, a Mysteryman with the same Background would fit the Comic Book version of same...likewise a Mesmerist with an Alienist Background would have near Mind Control over the weak-willed (+1 Hypnosis, Roll 2d6, keep one) and might have Stunts that work by mind-clouding (Track, Hide Tracks, Get A Clue, Find Blind Spot, Improve Cover are all good candidates).
In short, Abilities, Saves, Stunts and Backgrounds all have a different effect but can all work together.
And Scott, you know by now that you don't have to get permission to use any of my frenzied scribbles, permission is always assumed in my case. It's the least I can do to contribute to the fun.
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 10, 2020 3:28:25 GMT
I still need to catch up with all of this, but...I have notes for a draft of my Gimmick Hero class! Gimmick class Mystery Man attack bonus, skills, no stunts Signature Move only with Gimmick Gear Wreck Things as up to SH 3, only with Gimmick Gear Gimmick Gear has 2 powers or Spells at 1st level, etc. defined not freestyle. (So, the Gimmick Gear is the device/devices that give the Hero access to “Powers,” which can be chosen from either the Powers or Spells Lists. However, once chosen at Character Creation or Leveling up, those powers are set in stone. I haven’t worked out how many times per day they can be used, but Gear can be stolen, broken, or malfunctioning, too, and there would be simple rules for that as well to balance things out) So....those are my notes!
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 10, 2020 18:09:38 GMT
Further Gimmick Hero Notes:
The Gimmick Hero can be used as an overlay off of Mystery Man (as detailed above) or off of Fighter. (MM = Sandman, FTR = Hawkman) Each time, the Gimmick "overlay" removes or alters certain features of the base class. For example, The Mystery Man Gimmick Hero loses the Stunts ability, and can only perform their signature move with their Gimmick Device(s). The Fighter Gimmick Hero can only ignore the "Save vs. Plot" firearms restriction if their Gimmick Device is a kind of gun, and they can only ignore the Save requirement when using that Gimmick Device. When a Gimmick Hero Levels up, they may choose new Power(s) or Spell(s) effect(s) based on a Level Progression Chart I haven't created yet. These new effects can all be built into one Gimmick Device, or each new effect can represent a new Gimmick. Uses of these effects will have limits per day, etc, also based on my yet to be created chart. As mentioned before, Gimmick Devices can be stolen, disabled, etc, so they are not *quite* as handy an in-born Powers or memorized Spells. Rules for replacing/repairing a Gimmick Device are "not something I've thought much about yet!"
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 10, 2020 18:11:25 GMT
Also: have I mentioned how much I love Order99's "Backgrounds" idea yet? Because I freaking love it! A Gimmick Fighter Hero with a Cowboy Background! A Gimmick Mystery Man Hero with an Aviator Background! These things...they give me ideas!
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Post by order99 on Dec 10, 2020 23:19:08 GMT
Glad you enjoy the Backgrounds maxwellchris! Keep in mind that I can't Playtest any of these during Lockdown... I have some questions regarding the Gimmick Sub-Class of yours... 1) Does the Sub-Class simply gain a Gimmick with two abilities (or two with one each etc) as a One Time, front-loaded substitution bonus? Or do the number and type of Gimmicks increase per Level, as per the M-U (or even at a slower rate as my Speedster concept, so as not to overpower the M-U and Superhero)? 2) Just to clarify-i'm assuming that the Sub-Class is only for Fighters and Mysterymen? 3) Do you think that the Gimmick Hero might have enough legs to stand on its own as a Class with maybe a few tiny tweaks-perhaps a +1 to utilize unfamiliar Tech(not to step on the Android's toes) or maybe half the normal Inventing time for Devices(the unpredictable finicky ones from 1st Edition Book III page 30)? Because I could actually see several Heroes (Hawkman, Sandman etc) pick one Level of Gimmick Hero and then Multi-class instead... 4) Repairing Broken/Lost Gimmicks-maybe treat as Duplicating Spellbooks (again 1st Ed, Bk III p31)? Just to note-Hawkman still can't fly at Lvl 1-but with a Wing Harness containing Leap I and Feather Fall he'd come pretty durn close, and be able to fill at least half the panels of a 15-page Feature airborne...
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 11, 2020 14:33:47 GMT
1) Does the Sub-Class simply gain a Gimmick with two abilities (or two with one each etc) as a One Time, front-loaded substitution bonus? Or do the number and type of Gimmicks increase per Level, as per the M-U (or even at a slower rate as my Speedster concept, so as not to overpower the M-U and Superhero)? 2) Just to clarify-i'm assuming that the Sub-Class is only for Fighters and Mysterymen? 3) Do you think that the Gimmick Hero might have enough legs to stand on its own as a Class with maybe a few tiny tweaks-perhaps a +1 to utilize unfamiliar Tech(not to step on the Android's toes) or maybe half the normal Inventing time for Devices(the unpredictable finicky ones from 1st Edition Book III page 30)? Because I could actually see several Heroes (Hawkman, Sandman etc) pick one Level of Gimmick Hero and then Multi-class instead... 4) Repairing Broken/Lost Gimmicks-maybe treat as Duplicating Spellbooks (again !st Ed, Bk III p31)? Just to note-Hawkman still can't fly at Lvl 1-but with a Wing Harness containing Leap I and Feather Fall he'd come pretty durn close, and be able to fill at least half the panels of a 15-page Feature airborne... Hi, Order99!
1) I don't see Gimmick as a "Sub-Class," really, at least not how I'm approaching it. I see it as a class with two choices up front: Mystery Man or Fighter based? I could call them something else to reduce the sense of "sub-class-ness," but the results would still be the same: The Sly Gimmick Hero would be based on the Mystery Man, but with no Stunts, etc, and the Tough Gimmick Hero would be based on the Fighter, but with limits.
2) So, you have two different kinds of Gimmick Heroes: Sandman (Sly) and Hawkman (Tough). 3) I don't see the Gimimck Hero as a "Gadgeteer," that would be its own separate thing. The Gimmick Hero represents those non-powered heroes who have one super-powered "Gimmick" (or a few) that they seem to understand enough to maintain or improve. They don't tend to be portrayed as constantly coming up with new Gadgets, though. I find that the H&H system doesn't provide for the creation of heroes like this, especially not at first level, so I'm trying to come up with a way to let that happen. 4) That could definitely fit the bill, or at least be a solid starting point!
As for the Note about Hawkman, he needs to Fly at Level 1 or there is no reason for this class So, a 1st Level character's Gimmick Device would get either: 1) Two first level Power or Spell Effects or 2) 1 Second Level Power or Spell Effect To start with. After that there would be a Level-based progression for acquiring new effects that could either be "improvements" to the same Device, or representative of new Devices. Again, this is all to adsress my own personal bugaboo with the system: I don't want to do multi-class and "it kinda looks like flight if you squint" tricks in order to let someone make a 1st Level Hawkman (or Sandman). I'll write up a draft treatment of how "Hal Cartler, Man-Hawk" would work out later on today or over the weekend
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Post by order99 on Dec 11, 2020 16:46:10 GMT
Ah, so it's a single Class with two Variants: The Sly Gimmick Hero, uses the Mysteryman table, gets the Skill Boost, Attack Bonuses, Saves, Hit Dice, Weapon/Armor restrictions but no Stunts? The Tough Gimmick Hero uses the Fighter Table, gets everything except the Plot Immunity vs Guns? So Man-Hawk would start with one charge of Flight per day (wing-harness, 2 Turns at Lvl 1) and the Dust Witch would get two doses of Sleep (gun)? Sounds about right. And 8 hours recharge time (as in M-U Wands) sounds about right too... Since Duration and Range(where applicable) is already covered by Level, you would just need additional Uses scaling to Level of Gimmick Hero...i'm betting one additional use per adventure at Levels Two, Four and Six would be balanced enough to not crowd out the M-U and Superhero and still keep things within Golden Age specs... I have to admit, this would be an interesting alternative to 'Free Trophies at Lvl 1' or Brevet Ranks. Now while this would cover a lot of beginning Heroes in their opening Issues, there are some that go a bit beyond the Gimmick Hero as you've written it-Starman for example is a single Gimmick Hero who may as well be a M-U with modifications... the Science Hero I theorized about in another Thread might need to get an Overhaul and a Write-up in this one... Also, I can't wait to see Scott's Mystic Hero sometime soon (hint!)
Oh, how I wish we could Playtest these and see the unexpected ways that they bounce... Anybody reading this Thread who isn't in Lockdown right now?
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Post by maxwellchris on Dec 12, 2020 14:18:04 GMT
I would actually give Man-Hawk more than two uses of Fly per *day*, but then again: 1) I don't care about "game balance" as much as I care about letting people play the character that fits the concept/setting. If Hawkman IS a Golden Age comic book character, and you're gonna let him in the game, he should BE Hawkman. 2) I'm not a game designer by ANY stretch of the imagination, so you know, all of stuff from me is kind of like a bowl of spaghetti thrown against the wall from the perspective of actual designer-brains, and I FULLY recognize that
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Post by order99 on Dec 12, 2020 16:13:53 GMT
Well, probably the best way to get what you want ("Flies whenever he wants, Nyaaah! ) would be the Editor Conference ('Power Trade''). Rulings not Rules as the OSR motto goes! I mentioned a previous fix for Carter Hall as a Lvl 1 Hero in another thread: Hawkman (Carter Hall) Alien ('Timelost') Fighter Starting Abilities-Flight at 12"+2"/Lvl Weakness-Dependent on Ninth-metal flight Harness Starting Equipment- Ninth Metal Wing Harness (AC 7 "costume +Shield[wings]) and a Mace So Hawkman has his Flight Harness and his predilection for primitive weaponry and direct solutions (Alien Skill penalties for Modern tech, full bonuses for Ancient tech and Skill checks much as he was portrayed in the Golden Age comics). I simply made the ruling that constant Flight was roughly the same utility as all three Alien Abilities together, and went from there.
The great thing is that it works for Black Condor too: Black Condor (Richard Grey aka 'Thomas Wright') Alien ('Feral Child') Starting Abilities-Flight at 12"+2"/Lvl Weakness: Raised by Birds Equipment:Stolen clothing and ID In Black Condor's case, the constant Alien Skill Penalties (if it isn't physical stuff like Climbing/Swimming, Survival or Migratory Patterns he's SOL)are Weakness enough...so he probably picked up a Politics Background(laws, influence, rhetoric, public relations) to bolster his stolen identity...He can also Speak with Birds at will in the comics too, but that's just a Save vs Plot to get anything useful out of them ( they are birds!). My Golden Rule is this: An Ability equal to another Ability in usefulness is swappable. When Dayspring noticed that there were no Stretchy Heroes in H&H, we just took an Android Superhero, changed Weakness to 'Freezing Cold and Boiling Heat' and traded "Wreck at Range" to "Entangle at Range" (we could have used Grapple instead, but Stretchy Folk in comics always seem to have a HUGE advantage in wrestling foes). Ta-da! One bouncy, stretchy Hero!
My only hard-and-fast Rule concerning Game Balance is this-do not steal spotlight from the other PC's. If the new Class or Race is the go-to for all the Players now, well, oops! If the Editor wants to give out Brevet Ranks so that Captain Battle kicks butt like he does in Issue#1, then everybody gets them...
In fact-care to know the absolute easiest, K.I.S.S way to make a Gimmick Hero?
Give all the Players an extra $4000.00 (Brevet Funds? ) at the start of the game, and let them purchase anything in the book. Wealthy heroes are a staple after all, as are poor working class schlubs who lucked into a Magic Lamp or Excaliber. And if there's a PC who says "Gimmicks aren't my thing", well then, they have the paid-for Townhouse, Awesome Motorcycle, and access to lots and lots of Good Deeds early in the game ("He paid my Cataract Surgery! I can see! BLESS HIM!")...
As long as everybody gets something roughly equal, it's balanced enough IMHO.
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