Alternate Classes for H&H ?

[Adminenkainen]

I'll just sit back and let you two write the Heroes Handbook for me...

[order99]

(Has horrible nightmare of unimaginable Bloat Monster sliding over our helpless Editor and silencing him...Forever)

OH! Oh, it was only a dream! And, and maxwellchris was there, and Scott was there, and I think the Green Mask dropped by...

On a more serious note-you are as always, more than welcome to use anything I carelessly throw on the canvas of your Forum-it's easy to play with the toys once the Toymaker has created them after all. But while I applaud your creativity I am utterly, insanely envious of your Editorial skills-because I has none, no, none.    I can't bear to cut away any of my cruft and as a result my bloated messes never leave the nest, alas...

In Fact, here's my Dirty little Secret-as much as I like all of the Sourcebooks, Supplements and Editions (HUGS BOOKSHELF)-do you know the product that got the most play with my scattered sporadic Gang, along with a few pick-up sessions at the FLHS Pre-Covid?

H&H, Book One of One from 2008.

Self-contained. Three Classes.

I added Variable Weapon Damage from S&W Whitebox and made all the Skill checks Save vs Plot...everyone got a Blurb ("Vengeful Hunter of Men!" "Demon-haunted Nemesis of the Occult!" "Insane Master of Technology Gone Amok!" etc) and any Skill that fell roughly in the Blurb was rolled with Advantage(2D20 Keep the Best)...it's all I really needed or wanted at the time.No Bloat, just fun.

In fact...(whispers)...I still dream of marrying the 2008 version to the updated 2nd Edition Powers/Spells and using it as my Official Free Taste Edition ("yeah, good isn't it? Well I can set you up with this guy named Scott, see...")

Still, if enough Posters come back Forum-bound, brainstorm and agree to it, I could easily see an 'Advanced Options' splatbook for H&H. Heck, some of those Races from Trophy Case? Half-men and Alter Egos and the like? Them too! Optional Races and Classes for all, running smoothly on the Lego of 2nd Edition...

But if this ever happens? Get A Bigger RED Pen.  We need you alive, Man...

[order99]

Alas, sleep continues to elude me...Counter-Earth Jetlag is a BEAR I tell you...

Let's develop that Science Hero I theorized in another Thread:

The Science Hero

Attack Bonus,Hit Dice, Weapon restrictions and Skills as M-U.

Armor Restriction-as Mysteryman.

Experience-As Fighter

Saves-as M-U, except +1 to Plot, +2 to Missles, +2 to Science, +2 to Poison.

Races-Human, Half-Human, Android.

The Science Hero is a Variant Class of M-U (but don't tell them that) who has mastered futuristic, alien or other-dimensional forces that current society can only dream of. Like the M-U, the SH has a limited supply of Disciplines learned per Level and must rely on one or more Foci-unlike the M-U, the SH can pick from either the Magic or Super Powers table, and can choose to split the number of 'equipped' Disciplines through multiple Foci or just one as preferred.

A Focus taken from the SC cannot be used by the thief (unless they are a SC themselves and have some downtime to analyze it and add it to their own Known Discaplines). Lost/destroyed Foci can be recreated in a lab or other retreat within 1D3 days, and recharging Foci can be done with access to a simple Toolkit and 8 hours downtime.

Rationalist-unlike the M-U Class, the SH cannot join or participate in any way in a Contest of Wills.

No Science Too Strange-unlike other Classes, the SH never has an 'unfamiliar environment' penalty to Skills if it involves Science and Technology...the SC is at home with crude levers and pulleys, Martian Heat Rays or Atlantean Vril-tech as the average Joe is with his Model T.

 In Summation-Extra Versatile, Limited Armor, higher XP reqirement. Without the ability to Playtest, I call it 'sorta' balanced.

Oh well, still not sleepy, but i'm going to at least catch a few hours once I check my blood for stimulants and other contami...nants...

That's not blood, that's Pseudoplasm in ATF suspension..

 

LAB! FULL SCAN NOW!!!

Okay, no detonator, no wiring, not a Per Degaton Special this time-looks more like a Spider-silk Protein Stack with an Anaerobic/Aerobic Calorie Turbine and a skeletal Overlay comprised of Foamed Calcium laminated with insect chitin...wasn't I doing research on Calorie Turbines last year? And never mind that, where in the freakin' Multiverse is the Real Order99?

(CLICK)

Hidden Projector-Hey Me. Listen, if you're hearing this, then three things have definitely happened: One, you're active and mobile, and have been for some time. Two, you just found something upsetting about yourself and blurted out the right words while in the Lab. And Three...i'm  dead. I've got more Potions in me than Blood right now, and less than a minute of oxygen-and I was really hoped to see the end of the 1st/2nd Edition War too...

But never mind that. I built you the very best I knew how, and kept our memories current right up until-well, this mission right here. You are not a copy or a knockoff or any of that Existential Folderol-just, just consider yourself an official Reboot, okay? I'm glad one of us saw the 2nd Edition Universe, Scott's been working on it for awhile, and, um...Newly Minted Me? Don't tell the family. Peace Out, and make me proud.

(CLICK)

(sits down heavily)

I....um.

I... I don't even-

 I Swear...I Swear...

Freakin' 2020 Man, I tell you guys...

[Adminenkainen]

Would you see the Science Hero as taking the place of 1st editions Scientist class?

[order99]

Dec 15, 2020 2:29:22 GMT Adminenkainen said:

Would you see the Science Hero as taking the place of 1st editions Scientist class?

 (watches Monitor intently after having consumed an entire turkey, 3 whole sweet potatoes, 12 bowls of blueberry yogurt and a latte)

 Wow, look at those suckers go...Protein Stack Storage at only 38%, full Anaerobic ATP/ADP conversion rate of 97% efficiency...I could run off this for three weeks while holding my breath. These Calorie Turbines are awesome! Reboot Me is ready, come at me 2021...

 (checks Forum)

 Oh, sorry! Had a mild Existential Crisis there-could've been worse I guess.

 I honestly don't believe that the Science Hero occupies the same hemisphere of Headspace as the Scientist-i'd have called them Gadget Heroes if the the former moniker didn't make them sound more Retro/Golden Age.

While the Science Hero has a slight Tech advantage (only 1D6 but no penalties) over other Classes, I envision one as more of a Starman or even Silver Age Iron Man type-they have an expanding arsenal of Personal Equipment that, by the Rules, only works for them. The SC is definitely the Two-Fisted Action Cousin of the Scientist, but in the Lab, outside of their narrow field of Personal Equipment? They would be reading test results to the Scientist while the latter works on a permanent cure for the Martian Red Weed that can be fitted to a Cropduster tank...

 A D&D Cleric doesn't hold services or engage in Church Politics-they cast out Demons and slay Vampires. The Bishop of the Cleric's Church probably can't do any of that-but they can declare a Holy War or Excommunicate a King. Going again to early Marvel-Tony Stark would be a Science Hero, and Reed Richards would likely be a Multiclass Superhero/Scientist, while Hank Pym's Arch-enemy Egghead would be pure Scientist if held to PC rules.And of course there is no reason an SC can't Multiclass into a Scientist/Science Hero (Skyman probably did).

 Speaking of which-how would you revamp the Scientist Class for 2nd Edition?  Would you still use Specialist Levels  for spice? Because if I were Handwaving one into 2nd Edition just to make a Player happy i'd probably do something along the lines of:

The Scientist (Quick-N-Dirty)

Saves, Attack Bonus, Weapon and Armor restrictions as Magic-User.

Experience as Fighter.

 No Science Too Strange-as the Science Hero Ability.

 The Inventing Process-Save vs Plot, with Modifiers:

 Negative Modifiers=Difficulty of Invention as shown on H&H Supplement III Page 10.

 Positive Modifiers=Specialist Levels of Scientist as per same.

 Success equals a Kitbashed Prototype, with Control Checks needed as per H&H Supplement III page 9. Further testing and proper redesign as per H&H Book III page 31(add 2% per Level of Scientist to totals) yields  a Stable Invention ready to unleash upon the world (insane cackling optional). If the Editor decrees that this Stable Invention is 'Too Dangerous for Mankind' (campaign-breaking) however, a Failure Rate may be imposed as per Pages 31-32.

 So Scott-what would your updated Scientist look like? i'd love to see your 1st/2nd Edition Revamp!

Meanwhile, i'm going to test my Android Bonus Power-

 (POOF)

 

 But...but...but Mystic Android isn't even a Race...

 Oh you Fraud. Couldn't make the tech work without a Cheat Code of some kind could you? How am I supposed to make all of this life-saving Biotech available to the Planet if you need some kind of..of Artifact to make it work? Not to mention whatever Starheart Fragment or Mindgem or Tessaract or Anti-life Equation or whatever this thing is, some UberMobster as going to come hunting for it....

You are a Science Fraud Retro Me. What's worse, you don't have the Mojo to conjure a dustbunny...which means you cashed in that favor Black Anne owed us...which means that-

She knew. She knew you were dead this entire time.

 Good Grodd 2020...be OVER already...'scuse me while I Log Off folks-I have a phone call to make...

[maxwellchris]

Honestly, I don't want anyone to spend much energy thinking about silly Gimmick Hero idea, at least not any REAL energy, eh? As I said (and as you can plainly see!), I am no game designer! I just thought I'd wade in an see how people (even me!) might handle the concept of a 1st level PC that could legitimately cal themselves "Hawkman" or "Sandman," etc. Does that concept need a whole character class to itself? Probably not! That being said, I am really glad that this thread channelled Order99's insomnia into the directions it did! So many good ideas!

[order99]

Dec 15, 2020 19:56:20 GMT maxwellchris said:

Honestly, I don't want anyone to spend much energy thinking about silly Gimmick Hero idea, at least not any REAL energy, eh? As I said (and as you can plainly see!), I am no game designer! I just thought I'd wade in an see how people (even me!) might handle the concept of a 1st level PC that could legitimately cal themselves "Hawkman" or "Sandman," etc. Does that concept need a whole character class to itself? Probably not! That being said, I am really glad that this thread channelled Order99's insomnia into the directions it did! So many good ideas!

 That's the great thing about H&H in particular and the OSR in general-you don't have to be a game designer to do any of this! Seriously.

Nine times out of Ten i'm just hanging holiday lights on the gazebo that Scott built ("oh look! I wonder what this 'Robot Mode' button does?" ). And as brilliant as Scott's game is, he also builds upon the works of the OSR designers before him.There's an amazing feast of 40+ tears of toys out there to play with.

 Just for the heck of it-want to see a Holmes-style Hawkman?

 Junior Birdman (Kit Kelly)

Race-Human

Class-Fighter

Special Power-Champion of Eris! Upside-Wings of Flying,silver-edged and rainbow-colored. If somehow destroyed or lost, Eris will restore it in 1D3 days-in hideous Day-glo Plaid for 1D3 weeks .

Downside-Pawn of Eris, dragged kicking and screaming into incomprehensible situations and bizarre adventures.

Origin-Up and coming Golden Gloves Kit Kelly refused to throw a fight and was garrotted to death in the shower by Mob thugs-only to rise again bearing the favors and dichromatic  eyes of the Reborn of Eris...ALL HAIL ERIS! KEEP AUSTIN WEIRD!

 Is Kit Kelly overpowered? He gets a single Cool Thing the other PC's don't...but on the other hand the rest of the gang can be sipping coffee in Paris while poor Kit gets dragged into the sewers to judge a poetry contest between Eric the Phantom,  Salvador Dali, Marcel Duchamp and the legendary Medusa (winner gets the Jetski from the Glorious Future of 1987, ALL HAIL ERIS!)

 And if the other Players want  the Cool Thing too? Make them ALL  Champions of Eris! The Notional Dude gets an Elven Cloak,  Lady McSwank gets Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, and Kid Complexity gets The Chalice From the Palace (3 random Potions per Comic-replace 'Poison' entry with Sleep Potion)...

 Four low-Level Fighters with modest Magic Items, dedicated to making 1936 Austin Texas  Groovy and Strange?  There's yer Comic Book Maxwellchris!  Chosen of Eris Issue #Turquoise, available on your newsstands at the price of only four snails...

  (grabs Lute)

 You must believe in me oh maxwellchris, he said,

 There's creativity just lurking in your head

 Soon you will understand without a sign of dread

 There must be-FIFTY WAYS TO MAKE YOUR HAWKMAAAAAN!!!!

 (monitor shatters, walls bleed, data corrupts, experiments fail and two-headed lizards are born of cattle-and somewhere in the darkness, Per Degaton  laughs and laughs....)

Hold on....I grabbed the Cursed Lute of Abominable Doggerel? I had those labeled, by Grodd...

Er, Signing off for now....where's my broom?

 What a mess....

[order99]

Well, it's taken a day's worth of diagnostics but i'm finally sleeping better...

(checks previous posts)

YIKES. Definitely sleep-deprived, oh yes. I should probably take that last Post down lest someone decide on Commitment papers...

Then again, you never know when you might need evidence for an Insanity Defense.   At any rate, off to bed, actual Sleep at last and then Holidays with the relatives...here's hoping for a better 2021.

[maxwellchris]

To sleep, perchance, to dream! Of more H&H content, and more time for me to read it! Sorry I've been AWOL a bit! Had some heavy blogging to do! And still revving up for that podcast! H&H-wise, I need to focus on writing up some characters rather than pretending to be a game designer! Hope all is well for everyone!

[order99]

You have a Podcast? I MUST know more...

I've been taking a few days off from the PC to give out gifts via my new soon-to-be-patented COVID-19 Drive-by technique:

(Drives up to house, places gift at door, sanitizes gift, knocks on door, retreats to 6 feet. Waves "Happy Holidays!" sign at recipient and drives off)

At least i've got the hang of the new brain now, a quarter-turn adjustment to the Pre-frontal Synthcortext regulator and i'm sleeping good again! Also, my Gang and I have our New Year's resolution at hand...somehow, some way...despite Coronavirus...despite conflicting schedules...

We.

Are.

Going.

To.

GAME!

And when we do, i'm going to have some of these Alternate PC's available for possible Playtest! So if anybody has some they want me to run with, please leave them below...

(Yawn) Off to bed-feels so good to be able to say that and actually mean it...

[maxwellchris]

My friend and I are preparing to launch a podcast; about to record episode 6, and will begin launch sequence when we’ve gotten 8 eps finished. It’s about DC Comics’ “Weird War” series. As for gaming...I may be all for it! Depends on the frequency/format. I’ve been in an every other Sunday online HeroQuest game for about 8 months now, I think? It’s hard to keep track of time these days...

[order99]

Weird War Tales? The Creature Commandos? The Haunted Tank? G.I Robot and Dinosaur Island? NOTIFY me as soon as you release it, I am IN!

As far as my Gamer Gang goes, it's all a matter of logistics-Dayspring and Black Anne are married, working for the same company-and on different shifts because of course they are.   And as of August 2020, Dayspring gets to Telecommute while his wife is trying to sleep, then she gets up and still has to drive to work....sigh.

 (so far these twin Paragons of Virtue have resisted my offers to...er...apply a little persuasion to Management? Guess that counts as their Good Deed Bonuses for the week... )

Meanwhile, Per Negaton is on rotating Maintenance shifts-3 days on, 4 days off, 4 days on, 3 days off-and switches to Nights every two weeks. The only thing keeping him sane is his MUD habit from the late 90's (for any Young Whippersnappers in the audience, MUD is a text-based virtual world-it requires fast typing and lots of Pure Imagination...and yes, MUD servers still exist).

I, naturally, got COVID-19 layoff in May due to all our clients shutting down (we made fiberglass parts for third-party installations). The business re-opened in October-and half of us were not re-hired due to 'not enough work' ...currently working a part-time job with less than 30 hours a week, and selling handmade musical instruments on Ebay, Etsy and locally as a side gig-of the two, guess which pays more?  I'd go Full Time on the Luthier business if I wasn't currently limited to hand-tools and an outdoor picnic table for the Workshop...

I'm trying to convince the Gang to try a 'JLA Roll Call' style of Gaming-everybody makes 2 Heroes and a few SCMs to throw in the pot, and whenever any two of us can hang one assumes Editor duties and the other(s) play through....if nothing else I think that we can get some Issue#0 Origin Stories and a few Fifty Page Specials out of it...we'll see.

 Meanwhile, Happy St. Patrick's....Day?

 DEGATON you absolute Black-Hearted Oath-breaking little-

 Oh. wait.

 (re-sets the Chrono-harness's Earth/Counter-Earth  interface to allow for Orbital Savings Time)

Yeah, okay, I jumped the gun on that one. Looks like THE TRUCE is still in effect, at least in the oh-so-important 'not interfering with the Timelines' way...

 Guess i'll have to actually call him up and apologize-and wish the Nazi Happy Hanukkah while i'm at it...

[order99]

Well, one of my possible Players wants to play a 'Mystic Hero' type-

(so Per Negaton browsed The Larcenous Lexicon on his lunch breaks and saw Diamond Jack, YAY!)

-and until Scott shows us his version i'll just have to Kitbash a 'good enough' version, so:

The Mystic Hero

A subclass of Superhero, The Mystic Hero has the same Abilities, XP charts etc as the regular Superhero, with the following exceptions-

1) A River Broad but Shallow-Rather than having full access to the Powers table, the MH begins with two Lvl 1 Abilities (these can be chosen from the Spells or the Powers lists) Plus a number of others as per the Bonus Ability Table. While the MH is limited to 'Abilities Known' he or she does not need to memorize them and can activate at will from Known Abilities as if they were Powers, and count as either a M-U or Superhero of the same Level as the MH for effectiveness, duration etc, nor does the MH need to speak or gesture to activate the Ability in question.

Bonus Abilities The MH gains new Abilities every Level as per the Bonus Table every Level-and if the MH decides to replace an already learned Ability with a new one, it counts as

Research (H&H 1st Edition Bk.III P.30).

WIS Extra Abilities
7-9     1                  Mystic Being-regardless of whether a MH Ability is from the Powers or Spells lists, all are counted as Spells for the purpose of Detect Magic, Dispel Magic etc.
10-12 3                     If the opposing Caster is successful, the MH can still attempt a Save vs. Magic to 'counterspell' the effect-the MH cannot otherwise initiate or be subject to a
13-15 4                      Contest of Wills.
16-17 5
18      6                     Also, replace normal Superhero saves with the following: +2 vs Missles and Magic, +2 vs Poison, +1 vs Science.

                                 Optional Rule, Mystic Focus-A MH may decide to tie his or her Abilities to a Focus. The downside is that the MU has no Powers/Spells without the Focus and the
Focus may be used by Mobsters for Spell Research, to power some Infernal Machine etc. The upside is that the MH counts as one Level higher for Ability purposes (number of Bonus Abilities, Duraction effectiveness etc but with no increase in Power Slots per day).


Well, I judge the Mystic Hero 'Good Enough'-and I can't wait to see Scott's version!

[Adminenkainen]

That's more than I've got written for it! Nothing there conflicts with what I have. I think you should go for it!

[order99]

Jan 22, 2021 6:05:37 GMT Adminenkainen said:

That's more than I've got written for it! Nothing there conflicts with what I have. I think you should go for it!

  Well, the Science Hero and Mystic Hero are both just your M-U and Superhero with Clark Kent glasses and a Matches Malone mustache added on! It's hard to go wrong when i'm building on such a great foundation.

 I can't wait to see your version blow mine out of the water though-and being the designer of H&H, I know it will...

 It's a little weird though-I had sort of hoped that  starting this Thread would pull out many of our Members back into the swimming pool-and that in a few weeks we'd have enough alternate Classes for another Sourcebook or a Trophy Case Annual (Spotlight on Classes) or somesuch. Instead I get chronic insomnia for a week and start playing in your toybox...and while I have some basic proficiency riffing off of other people's work, I was hoping that maybe half a dozen Posters would join in with all new concepts that neither you nor I nor maxwellchris had thought of yet...

 And now i'm getting nostalgic for my old group in NC State college-only two of us were actually enrolled, mind, but no one care if we borrowed Thompkins Hall on Friday nights. And now the four of them are scattered like the Horsemen of the Apocalypse through the US, Japan and Canada...each of them, to a man, were utterly deranged-And. I. Loved.It.

 They would ask me to GM Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness RPG, and rolled up four steroid-filled Kung Fu Psychic Chickens-and forgot to put points in such trivialities a hands or Speech-every single non-combat interaction with those bozos was the worst episodes of Lassie and Flipper ever written...

 We had a D&D game  where the idiots found a Deck of Many Things-and instead of kamikazeing themselves with it, they went to a village in a kingdom that they were at war with, and started challenging the Town guard to Three-Card Monte...I had to redraw the map from scratch to include "The Vast Wasteland That No Man Goeth, Nay nor Demon nor God"... 

 The worst part? Those idiots are the reason the kingdoms were at war in the first place. One Charm Monster on one Medusa, one trunk of disguises, and voila! The PCs sell a Medusa to a Prince of the Realm's harem...so yeah, WAR.

 Then there's the time they  decided to conquer a small Keep-yep, all four of them. The plan? A Giant Wicker Man full of bodies from a charnel pit, a scroll of Animate Dead, an Audible Glamer and some pitch-and three hours before dawn a Giant Burning Man tap-danced in front of the gates screaming "RUN! Run before the wrath of Kraa the VOLCANO GOD! RUUUUUNNNN!"  And I just threw the module into the wastebasket and grabbed some random Charts...

 One time on my Birthday, one of The Four Dooms decided to let me be a player again-and I had no idea that 1st Edition Pendragon could be made to run a Kung-fu Blacksploitation game. So four former 'Nam vets turned Bike Messengers managed to tick off both The Mob and the CIA, set them against one another with a daring armored car robbery (yes, we were on 5-speed Schwinns at the time) and somehow wound up playing Bluegrass at the wedding of a Mafia Princess because why not? I drank so much coffee that night the dice were falling in slow motion, I swear...

 After awhile, I would insist on running 4th Ed. Tunnels & Trolls because it was the only game I knew that was flexible enough to handle a scenario where four Intrepid Pokemon Trainers battled the terrorist organization known as Cobra in order to prevent Destro from opening up a portal to the Deadite Realm with the original copy of Al-Azif  as the summoned ghost of Caravaggio partners with an ailing Jack Kirby to create the Ultimate Art Poster to capture the Forces of Hell forever and then I think my brain broke and I don't remember much after that except that when Darth Vader fell to Bruce Lee's One Inch Punch the armor fell off and he was just a Hobbit on stilts and a throat mike who ran offstage and then somehow all the COFFEE was gone and I ripped the curtains down like I was Van Helsing and all my Players were Vampires and screamed "PLAGUE ME NO MORE THIS NIGHT!" and then I slept on a couch until Sunday....

 Oh how I miss those lunatics. When I met the new group in Newport (and could somehow still game a few night a month at the FLGS) I ran a plain vanilla Noir-ish game of Gangbusters for awhile, and it was good. But every now and then I kept hearing these annoying voices in the back of my head saying 'hey, the Crime Squad finally meets Boss Macintyre only he's a brain in a jar with robot arms' or 'hey let's do a Groundhog Day episode' or 'you're no Fun anymore, have Crime Squad meet a circus full of vampires'....sigh.

  I'll be happy if my gang can ever get back together post-COVID. But the old gang was like a bunch of Marathon runners who picked up some schlub from the crowd on a whim and suddenly I am in an Iron Man Triathalon and my heart is racing and yet somehow I am keeping pace? Oh the blisters I will have if I survive...and next thing I know i'm on the ground gasping for air and four maniacs are screaming "I told you he was one of us! I TOLD YOU!"  I can't help but imagine each of them starting new gaming groups wherever they are now, like a bunch of underground Dada Art school insurgents...

  Long story short-if I can ever find out the old gang's  new e-mail addresses i'm gonna sic them on you. This Forum will be overflowing with more creativity than the server will tolerate!  It'll get real Gonzo in here...